The Day by day Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen “Breadman” Edwards tackling matters reminiscent of Gervonta Davis vs. Ryan Garcia, Tim Tszyu and his latest knockout of Tony Harrison, Naoya Inoue and his legacy potential, David Benavidez vs. Caleb Plant, and extra.
Whats up Breadman,
I pray you and your loved ones are doing effectively. As an informal boxing fan I lastly have a combat I’m actually trying ahead to seeing in Davis vs Garcia. I don’t know who’s going to win as a result of I haven’t seen sufficient of both in with elite competitors so I don’t know sufficient however I’ll say based mostly on Tank being extra energetic and combating barely higher competitors I make him the favourite. The combat depends upon Garcia’s ego. If he is available in with no ego and fights intelligently by using his jab and staying on the surface and making Tank come to him I really feel that will give him his greatest likelihood of profitable. If Garcia goes in for the kill and makes it a warfare I really feel he’ll finally get stopped. I really feel each guys might probably be dropped in a firefight however I like Tanks’ chin extra.
At the very least I lastly have a combat to stay up for for the primary time in a very long time I pray each of those guys give us a fantastic combat as a result of boxing actually wants it at the moment. One different factor what do you consider Michael Jai White saying he might beat Bruce Lee due to his dimension. He caught plenty of backlash for that as a result of Bruce Lee is an Iconic determine. I feel he ought to have saved his ideas to himself as a result of he doesn’t come throughout as effectively on movie like Bruce and Bruce is useless and gone so it may well’t be confirmed. Good luck with Plant vs. Benavidez. I feel the Benavidez hype is definitely larger than what he has truly accomplish to this point so it isn’t inconceivable. I pray you pull off the victory.
God bless and take care,
Blood and Guts from Philly
Bread’s Response: Plainly you’re barely favoring Tank as most are. Though each lack a plethora of elite opponents. I feel it’s honest to say that Tank is the extra confirmed fighter. The chin factor is attention-grabbing. Though each are undefeated. My intestine tells me, Tank has a greater set of whiskers. If Ryan Garcia loses this combat, I feel somebody will look again at his matchmaking and say that Ryan might’ve been higher groomed for the Tremendous Struggle. I’m not blaming anybody particularly as a result of solely Ryan and his group is aware of why he wasn’t matched higher. However I really feel that Tank has some separation by way of opposition which is telling as a result of Tank will likely be 29 this yr and critics, criticize his matchmaking. Go determine…
I’m an enormous Bruce Lee fan. I hear. I observe. It’s loopy to me that he’s been useless for 50 years and also you hear “others” taking pictures at him. “He by no means fought in actual competitors.” False!“ He was simply an actor.” False!“ He wasn’t actually that quick.” False!
I’ve researched alone and all of these issues are false. By a mile. I can’t inform Michael Jai White what to say and what to not say. However it certainly doesn’t look or really feel proper to say that you possibly can beat a person in a road combat who can be 83 if he was residing at present. Was about 80lbs smaller than you. And a a lot larger icon.
I googled this remark whenever you wrote in to ensure you had it proper. And my first thought was why say something. However to every is personal. In my thoughts Bruce Lee is the best Martial Artist/Actor in historical past and it’s not up for debate.
What’s up Bread?
In mild of the latest debate about rehydration clauses (with the upcoming Tank-Garcia combat), are you able to elaborate on what occurs when a fighter rehydrates an excessive amount of in 24 hours?I do know fighters look to achieve a dimension benefit however I’m assuming that would backfire sooner or later. Curious to listen to your ideas.William in West Palm Seashore
Bread’s Response: Undecided what you imply by rehydrates an excessive amount of. However in Ryan’s case he can’t be over 146lbs the subsequent day after the weigh in. Now what time that subsequent day weigh in will likely be, I don’t know.
146lbs will not be a giant deal if Ryan has to weigh in, within the morning. 146lbs is a large deal if it’s at 7pm at night time proper earlier than he steps within the ring. So till we hear that, I don’t have a lot to say.
Typically a fighter can rehydrate as a lot as he desires. With the IBF the max is 10lbs by the subsequent morning then they’ll rehydrate as a lot as they need after the morning weigh in.
Greetings Sir!
I hope you might be effectively. That is my first time writing, however I have been a very long time fan and I tune in religiously for my weekly dose of pugilistic schooling, knowledge, and historical past! Thanks for sharing with us followers!I used to be gutted for Tony Harrison final weekend. I knew that Tszyu’s youth and physicality would play a giant half, however I hoped for a better combat the place Harrison’s expertise and general technical ability would finally be the deciding issue. I’ve all the time been a fan of cerebral technicians reminiscent of Hopkins, Ward, Mayweather (my father launched me to boxing with previous tapes of Sugar Ray Robinson, Ali, he was additionally a fan of Marvin Hagler and Alexis Arguello).Anyway, one factor that struck me early in that combat was how Harrison was reacting to getting hit. He appeared to ‘freeze’ and momentarily lose his composure. What are your ideas on that? I do know you talked about the dangers of him doubtlessly overtraining and reducing an excessive amount of weight.
Additionally, he appeared reluctant to throw the appropriate cross and left hook, which he often throws with nice timing. Do you suppose he was stunned by Tszyu’s counters and discouraged from committing to energy pictures? The jab alone was not going to be sufficient to discourage Tszyu from crashing in.
Additionally, Harrison did not appear to provoke clinches each time he was damage. I do know that is one thing we see extra usually with inexperienced fighters. On that word, do you prepare your fighters on the right way to react if damage or knocked down throughout a combat? Oftentimes, I really feel fighters resort to their instincts to get out of bother and combat their approach by means of it as an alternative of clinching, or taking additional seconds to get again up from a knockdown. I assume it additionally depends upon how badly they’re damage / disoriented. Mayweather, who was not often hit clear not to mention damage in a combat, instinctively clinched and closed the space when Mosley damage him. That was spectacular!Lastly, what would you say are areas of the sport or abilities which are misplaced or not as emphasised as earlier than? Infighting, physique jabs, shovel hooks, test hooks, particular footwork patterns? I’ve all the time appreciated the wonder and ability in efficient infighting. Duran, Toney come to thoughts. So does the JRock clinic in opposition to Hurd! Thanks for sharing your ideas and good luck for the upcoming Caleb Plant combat!
Salaam
Bread’s Response: Infighting is unquestionably a misplaced artwork nowadays. However everybody mentions that. I provides you with a greater one. Punching on the transfer. Watch Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran II. Leonard punched on the transfer and it drove Duran loopy. Fighters at present, transfer, cease to punch, then transfer once more. They don’t punch on the transfer. Up till the 80s, you had fighters who might stick and transfer/punch on the transfer.
I’ve so many ideas on the Tszyu vs Harrison combat. First off Tszyu improved a fantastic deal because the Gausha combat. Tszyu was simply as quick as Harrison by way of handspeed and his thoughts quickness was superior and it’s why he was in a position to strain and counter punch. Tszyu fought a fantastic mature combat. He was composed. He saved prefect distance. He lower the ring off. He saved Harrison up in opposition to the ropes. And actually placed on a present. I used to be very, very impressed.
As for Harrison. Tall, lanky Kronk skilled fighters don’t often throw good left hooks to the HEAD. They throw good left hooks to the physique in a sweeping vogue, often after a proper hand. Simply give it some thought.
Hearns constantly bought beat to the hook by Leonard. McCrory bought brutalized by Curry buying and selling hooks. Harrison bought clipped by Jermell Charlo buying and selling hooks.
Gerald McClellan had a fantastic BODY hook, he not often kos anybody together with his hook to the pinnacle. So I don’t blame Tony for not overthrowing a left hook to Tszyu’s head. Tszyu is a heavy handed child and I felt from the 4th spherical on, he was hitting Tony simply an excessive amount of. The combat was simply too violent for Tony to win. When somebody requested me in regards to the combat and mentioned it could be Struggle of the 12 months. I mentioned I used to be selecting Tony however not in a Struggle of the 12 months kind of combat. He wanted it to be much less violent and at a slower tempo.
One of many main guidelines of boxing is to not let your head come over your entrance knee. Tony is a wonderful boxer however he has poor posture. He loses his peak and attain benefit as a result of his head is all the time coming OVER his entrance knee when he jabs and throws a proper hand. Tszyu landed a giant counter within the third spherical after a proper hand. And I feel it made Tony suppose. However that’s what separates good and nice fighters. An ideal fighter alter to that and retains throwing his proper hand. A superb fighter stops throwing it.
Watch Bernard Hopkins vs Segundo Mercado. Mercado did the identical experience again counter on Bernard and really dropped and damage him. Nonetheless Bernard saved throwing his proper hand. He saved touchdown it. He bought a draw within the 1st combat and within the rematch he stopped Mercado with guess what, a proper hand!
I used to be certainly involved about Tony’s weight. I noticed that Tony posted an image of him being 160lbs a number of weeks earlier than the combat. It scared me as a result of should you get down in weight too quickly, then it’s tougher to place the burden again on. Tony is 6’1 with a big head, no insult supposed. I assume if he’s not boxing and simply consuming his on a regular basis meals. He’s between 175lb-185lbs. So to carry 160lbs for that lengthy, whereas taking punches within the fitness center depletes a fighter. I nonetheless picked him however it was certainly a priority and that’s why I said it.
In the event you have a look at Tony’s physique, he seemed the identical approach he did on the weigh in. He seemed about 160lbs after weighing in beneath 154lbs. Ideally a fighter places on 10% of his weigh in weight. Tszyu was actually stuffed out. That’s additional protein, energy, carbs and fats {that a} fighter will get to burn off. So Tszyu had a giant benefit from what my eyes advised me. Tony’s power was dwindling. He had ability however he didn’t appear to have bodily energy. I used to be glad the combat was stopped within the ninth as a result of 3 extra rounds in that state can alter your life after boxing. And I actually, actually like Tony. He’s one of many coolest younger brothers you possibly can ever meet.
I consider as a coach you go over all the pieces together with your fighter. Even being damage or dropped. However in these occasions, it’s extraordinarily troublesome to recollect for a damage fighter, who’s dizzy. You deliver up Floyd Mayweather, however Floyd is of the highest percentile of nice fighters ever. His AWARENESS and composure is among the many greatest within the historical past of boxing. Each single time I’ve ever seen Floyd buzzed, Corley, Pacman, Mosley, Judah, Maidana and Cotto. He comes again stronger. He often wins the subsequent spherical. And there’s no residual impact of it.
When mentioning Floyd, you need to point out him with the particular fighters of all time. Guys who can function whereas damage. Holyfield, Ali, Leonard, Holmes….Harrison is a strong child, I really like him. However that’s not honest to him to say him with Floyd. He can be undefeated if he might function whereas being damage like Floyd.
Better of luck to each Tszyu and Tony sooner or later. Props to each for taking the SMOKE.
Hello Bread, if Inoue wins in opposition to Fulton, would you rank him ATG? I feel he’s already high 5 in all time Asian fighters, and for me Manny is the no. 1 in Asia, do you suppose he can surpass him anytime quickly? and what you suppose he ought to do as a way to surpass Manny?
Bread’s Response: I feel we must always depart the comparisons to Manny alone. If he sniffs Manny then cool. However to consider what Manny did, it doesn’t appear actual or honest. However Manny is the one flyweight champion in historical past to be a fantastic fighter at welterweight. I can not think about Inoue being the perfect welterweight on the planet in a number of years…It most likely received’t ever occur once more.
Inoue does have a declare for #2 Asian fighter ever already. I already suppose he’s ATG decrease weight fighter. He’s within the high 10 fighters ever for my part from 118 and beneath. I can’t consider 10 with a greater legacy than from bantamweight and under. If he comprehensively beats Stephen Fulton I’ll say not solely is he an ATG fighter however he can be the main candidate up to now for Fighter of the Decade (2020s).
Mr. Edwards—wishing you massive success on 3/25 and love that each one the world is seeing what so many people so 10+ years in the past, your information on life and boxing is subsequent stage and helpful to athletes, fathers, coaches and enterprise leaders throughout the globe. final weekend i watched a replay of Foreman vs Holyfield which impressed a number of questions and observations. Which of those heavyweights is considered as the higher heavyweight by way of all time rankings? I feel each are high 20 however attention-grabbing to see the place you rank them. Equally who would you select to win extra fights in opposition to at present’s high 3 heavyweights: Fury, Usyk, and Wilder—and i’m asking about 42 yr previous foreman–i suppose the foreman that beat Joe Frazier knocks out all three of them. Holyfield was on his toes a lot of the combat and had nice legs and ft, has any heavyweight of the final 30 years had ft as good as Evander’s? Yet one more query which a buddy requested at dinner that night, Why in most different weights 4lbs or 8lbs (say 160 to 168) makes an enormous distinction however when you recover from 215 lbs, a 20, 30, or 40 lb weight distinction may be overcome?
At dinner, I mentioned it’s as a result of everybody over 215lbs can do injury with 10oz gloves and sooner or later there’s a tradeoff between weight and energy vs pace, stamina, quickness, footwork, fatigue and recovery—but i mentioned, keep tuned as i’ll ask Breadman! That combat was in Atlantic Metropolis as was Gatti vs Mayweather and Paul WIlliams vs Sergio Martinez (the final combat i noticed in AC)….I feel combat venues reminiscent of Barclays, Capital One Enviornment and MGM Grand Maryland have made Brooklyn and the DMV superior venues to carry Fights and are the nail within the coffin for AC as a boxing venue. WHat do you see are the perfect rising cities and arenas to host boxing and are there any dying cities and venues that have to be both revived or written off?
Billy Bomaye, Washington, DC
Bread’s Response: I feel Washington DC and Minneapolis, Minnesota are massive rising combat cities.
I rank Holyfield as a high 10 ever heavyweight perhaps 7ish I’ve to do some forensic analysis to say precisely the place. I rank George Foreman as a high 3 or 4. The 42 yr previous Foreman was an incredible fighter however I feel he’s too sluggish for Usyk and Fury. I’ve to consider Wilder a bit of bit. Somebody would get severely damage.I feel Holyfield on his greatest day beats all 3. He might need to combat Usyk and Fury 3x to determine all of it out however Holyfield in 1991 was one thing particular.
The rationale why a 215lbs fighter can beat a 245lbs is as a result of usually occasions the additional weight makes the larger fighter be slower, have much less stamina and agility and be extra compromised. You don’t usually see distance runners over 200lbs do you? So after a specific amount of weight, the center has extra upkeep. It doesn’t present up as a lot on the smaller weights. However it’s why guys like Usyk and Wilder are 2 of the highest 3 heavyweights on the planet. I’ve been within the fitness center with fighters over 240lbs. And they’re much tougher to coach. They merely don’t have the engines. You do have particular instances however general….these are their points.
Gennadiy Golovkin vacated his middleweight titles and is presently pondering his subsequent transfer. If I think about the attitude of his promotional group, I don’t see anybody combating between 154 kilos and 168 kilos that is sensible as an opponent for Golovkin.
Each champion or high contender Golovkin might combat (meaning not Canelo Alvarez) poses a excessive threat, low reward scenario. If Golovkin beats any of these fighters, it received’t improve his legacy in any respect. If he loses to any of them, it should diminish his legacy.I’d additionally argue that none of them supply Golovkin a brilliant combat paycheck, though I might see a case being made for the winner of Benavidez-Plant, both of the Charlo twins or Jaime Munguia.So I feel Golovkin will announce a debut at mild heavyweight for his subsequent combat. He already moved as much as tremendous middleweight and the largest fights he could make are simply seven kilos away from that.Dmitry Bivol and Artur Beterbiev each want related opponents and each supply tremendous combat platforms.
Additionally, in contrast to each different potential opponent for Golovkin, there wouldn’t be any draw back if he loses. Even when Golovkin will get brutally knocked out in simply 30 seconds, his legacy stays intact by means of any loss at mild heavyweight.I feel it makes approach an excessive amount of sense however I haven’t seen this risk talked about wherever. I wished to know should you might see Golovkin transferring to 175 quickly. If not, what do you suppose his subsequent transfer would possibly seem like?
Thanks a lot!
Bread’s Response: I haven’t given it a lot thought however I feel Golovkin has gotten previous in entrance of our eyes. It takes quite a bit for him to get in form. So now he’s on the level the place he’ll most likely not retire however sit again and PICK the appropriate opponent. I by no means thought he had the body to maneuver up. Keep in mind Hagler and Monzon by no means did both….So I’m not so positive he’ll go to 175lbs. Until you possibly can inform me who he’ll goal I simply don’t learn about that. However I do suppose he’ll select a man he might probably beat at 160 or 168. Let’s see.
Peace, My title is Q from East New York Brooklyn. You could have talked about PEDs in your newest mailbag. I consider there must be polygraphs for boxers particularly those who check optimistic and deny it. Do you suppose polygraphs are possible, and/or sensible to assist lower PEDs within the sport? Thanks god bless .
Bread’s Response: Polygraphs received’t work in boxing. Boxers lie now in the event that they fail a check that’s both optimistic or damaging. So in the event that they fail a polygraph what do you suppose they’ll do? They’re going to say polygraphs will not be admissible in courtroom so subsequently the check aren’t legitimate. It’s simply not sensible to make use of at this level.
I used to be studying Paul magnos mailbag on fighthype and I learn a response concerning Connor Benn. I felt like you possibly can perhaps add to it or not less than supply one other viewpoint, or open up an even bigger dialogue as to the PED scandal that’s showing to get swept beneath the rug. The Piers Morgan – Benn interview? Benn rejecting the WBC’s egg proposal. Possibly this e mail can function a template to proceed that dialog in your mailbag. You could have a strong viewers that acknowledges and respects your boxing thoughts and your capacity to “shoot from the hip.“
I’m going to start out this off by saying that I don’t consider Conor Benn’s claims of innocence and I’ve zero confidence within the WBC’s “clearing” of the fighter, which was just about completely based mostly on Benn’s declare that he ate an “extreme” quantity of eggs tainted with the banned substance Clomiphene. The second era fighter has reportedly not been cooperating with the UK Anti-Doping Company (UKAD) or the British Boxing Board of Management (BBBofC), which have considerably extra stringent necessities for reinstatement. There’s only a lot that ain’t proper with Benn’s story.
Notably, the actual hormone in query is prohibited to be used in poultry within the UK and it could be cost-prohibitive to make use of that substance in any black market/off-the-books poultry setup (if such issues even exist). Most (if not all) European nations have an analogous ban on the hormone. So, the place, precisely, did he get this huge amount of tainted eggs and why did he pop damaging for that very same banned substance earlier final yr as effectively (in a optimistic check that, for some cause, by no means noticed the sunshine of day till Benn’s second failed check)?
Within the case of Canelo’s optimistic check for Clenbuterol in 2018, Alvarez blamed it on ingestion of tainted beef. To again up his case, he supplied receipts for the place he ate the meat and there was a subsequent investigation tracing that meat again to the slaughter home the place it got here from. He additionally submitted himself to a hair follicle check, which confirmed that the quantity of Clenbuterol in his system was in step with unintended ingestion through tainted beef. Benn did none of that and has carried out himself belligerently in direction of the businesses that matter in proving his innocence. He, just about actually, has no argument aside from “I ate plenty of eggs that have been most likely tainted.”Within the athletic world, Clomiphene is a identified doping agent which boosts the extent of testosterone in an athlete. Within the poultry world, not less than within the UK and surrounding areas, it’s not in use. Until another proof pops up, I name BS on Benn and his story.
Bread’s Response: Paul Magno has a wonderful mailbag. You guys ought to test it out. So far as his remark about Benn particularly, I agree 100%. I don’t have something so as to add.
What’s up coach a lot respect. I want to hear your ideas on the perfect SINGULAR trait, in your opinion, of some previous and current fighters:1. Mike Tyson 2. Floyd Mayweather Jr3. Carlos Monzon 4. Tank Davis 5. Canelo Alvarez6. Roberto Duran 7. Muhammad Ali 8. Manny Pacquiao9. Felix Trinidad 10. Deontay Wilder11. Tyson Fury12. Salvador Sanchez13. David Morrell Jr 14. Dmitry Bivol15. Roy Jones Jr
Lastly – my sons are 6, 5, and a pair of years previous. Are you able to share any piece of recommendation you may have on coaching children generally? For context I’m knowledgeable MMA fighter and novice champion so I do have fight expertise.
Thanks, Adrian Soto-Pérez from NC
Bread’s Response: When coaching your children, make it enjoyable. It’s important to have a very good mixture of self-discipline and enjoyable. And be affected person. Strive to not get pissed off. It’s going to occur however simply attempt to disguise it should you can.
I can’t simply say a singular trait however I’ll attempt to make my solutions transient.
1. Mike Tyson-Dynamic mixture of pace, method, energy and ability.
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.- Clutch Fighter who’s thoughts elevates him to the highest of the meals chain in any period.
3. Carlos Monzon- Ornery killer within the ring, who’s sum whole was higher than his elements damaged down.
4. Tank Davis- Minimalist, environment friendly nice puncher with, very good athleticism and boxing abilities.
5. Canelo Alvarez- Full fighter on offense and protection, with a imply profitable perspective and composure for the large second.
6. Roberto Duran- A pure fighter who had the perfect mixture of extremely offense and accountable protection in historical past.
7. Muhammad Ali- The most effective mixture of satisfaction, pure expertise, toughness and coronary heart the boxing world has ever seen.
8. Manny Pacquiao- Resilient, adaptable, extremely athletic fighter who had the perfect PPV run in historical past of seven nearly excellent fights in a row
9. Felix Trinidad- An murderer who all the time had enjoyable going into fight.
10. Deontay Wilder- A fighter who’s coronary heart is as massive as his punch and his punch is among the many greatest in historical past.
11. Tyson Fury- a mountain of a person, who has a mountain of ability, will and dedication.
12. Salvador Sanchez- The unflappable, indefatigable, consummate skilled who rose to any stage he needed to.
13. David Morrell Jr- A deceptively robust, athletic, assured star within the making.
14. Dmitry Bivol- Scientific, calm, winner.
15. Roy Jones Jr.- essentially the most underrated fighter in historical past and he is high 20-25 ATG. The man you need to be on his greatest day. An incomparable mixture of IQ, athleticism, ability and energy.
Hey Bread. Many thanks for the efforts on the Sunday column – I stay up for it each week and browse with out fail. I’m positive it takes you plenty of time, even when it’s your ardour. A few questions I’d worth your opinion on: Tszyu v Harrison – he did higher than I anticipated, I assumed Harrison would have been simpler together with his jab. How did you view them each? Significantly the stoppage – many individuals in Australia thought the ref was too late to cease the combat? I feel it was Charlo that mentioned a very good counter puncher will clip Tszyu – he appeared vast open at occasions – ideas? Kambosos v Max – arising. I respect Kambosos going after a man with an honest resume. How do you suppose he’ll fare and if he wins, how aggressive can he keep on this stacked division? Canelo – I don’t get why he eats as a lot criticism as he does. He’s picked and deliberate his combat path fastidiously and has higher resume than simply about anybody. Ideas? Lastly, his combat v Ryder is in Estadio Akron which I consider is 1500m above sea stage. How a lot does altitude have an effect on a visiting fighter that received’t do a full camp there? Vs how a lot does some altitude in coaching in a spot like Massive Bear assist?
Thanks once more, Adam.
Bread’s Response: Thanks however it comes out on Saturday morning at 10:30am EST.
I assumed Tszyu carried out wonderful. He’s a critical risk at this level. Harrison confirmed his abilities however his physique seemed depleted. I didn’t like that he appeared to not put a lot weight on after the weigh in. I hope he’s okay transferring ahead as a result of taking punches in a depleted state could cause critical injury.
A superb counter puncher can clip Tszyu however Tszyu is bettering and he was the one counter punching vs Harrison. Tszyu confirmed a really excessive IQ. He didn’t over punch. He didn’t miss BIG. So he’s bettering on not being counter punched. It seemed to me that Tszyu noticed his personal flaws and determined to work on them. He made the perfect of his time after the Gausha combat.
I don’t know who Kambosos’s opponent is however I really feel like Kambosos may have a tricky time getting again to the highest.
Canelo has among the finest resumes in boxing. So criticizing his decide of opponents could also be slight micro managing. Canelo made a mistake for my part by mentioning that Benavidez was Mexican as a cause to not combat him. The easy cause is, Benavidez will combat him. So it doesn’t make sense to say that if the fighter you’re saying it about, doesn’t really feel that approach about you. So which will deserve some criticism.
However John Ryder is a strong fighter and a compulsory. A-list fighters often combine showcase fights with killer fights. So Canelo mixes his in. I feel Canelo deserves criticism for different issues. However in context with the extent of competitors that his contemporaries have confronted, he ought to solely get minimal slack for his opponents.
I don’t know the way a lot the altitude will impact Ryder. However I skilled in Massive Bear a number of occasions and I bought winded hitting the pads for a number of rounds. It was actual.
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